Marketing Podcast

Marketing Leadership in the 2020 Crisis with Akshay Sardana

Season 3 – Episode 3

Crisis Series: Marketing leaders are being tested like NEVER before.  We are all experiencing a once-in-a-lifetime (hopefully) health pandemic, and marketing plans were dropped like hot potatoes in March 2020.

My guest in this episode is Akshay Sardana, Acquisition Marketing Manager at Optus, and the AMI Future Leader of the Year.  Akshay is a trail-blazing, marketing leader, who is on the front foot when it comes to technology, thinking fast, and pivoting during a crisis.

We discuss:

  • What is going on? Which marketing leaders are shining?
  • What’s the difference between a Marketing Manager and a Marketing Leader?
  • Where does AI, AR and marketing technology fit in the near future?

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Transcript

Fiona:

As part of the 2020 crisis series of this marketing life, I am chatting with a Akshay Sardana, Acquisition Marketing Manager at Optus, and winner of AMIs 2019 Future Leader of the Year

At Optus, Akshay is responsible for development review and implementation of an integrated marketing strategy with a focus on consumer consideration and acquisition.

As an engineer turned marketer, Akshay is passionate about technology, and it’s life-changing possibilities, and has spent the last eight years working with the world’s leading brands including Huawei and Asus.

Today, we are chatting about marketing leadership in a time of lock down and crisis.

Welcome to the show Akshay.

Akshay:

Thanks Fiona. Pleasure, thanks for having me.

Fiona:

I’m so glad you could join me. This is an unusual time, isn’t it?

Akshay:

It sure is. And you sort of mentioned in my intro, that I’ve been passionate about technology and leadership and I feel challenging times like these.

It’s an interesting time to see how leaders around the world, not just from a marketing and technology perspective, but global government leaders react to a situation like this.

So I think, it is a challenging time and it’s testing true character and…

Fiona:

Oh my goodness, it totally is. There is such a spotlight on leadership this year, it’s like, during this crisis, everyone is so thirsty for it. Everyone is just looking for someone to lead us, and someone to show us the way and to tell us everything’s gonna be okay.

Akshay:

Absolutely, I think brands and leaders around the world are no strangers to crisis management, but I think the global scale of COVID19 has been a first for all of us and it’s gonna be a new benchmark in terms of leadership qualities around people who can really instil, I guess, calmness and composure, and transparency.

Fiona:

Absolutely. So how are you doing, how are you going, through this crisis, and how is everything going at work, what’s happening?

Akshay:

I’m doing well, personally it has been an interesting few weeks. Trying to balance work life at home. To be honest, I found the first few weeks easier unlike most people as it was a change in routine for me is having more time at home, but I’m not gonna lie. I’m starting to get cabin fever.

Fiona:

Like most of us.

Akshay:

I’ve managed to enhance some of my skill sets like binge-watching multiple shows in a day to…

Fiona:

That’s a very important skill.

Akshay:

Beating my wife at Uno. You know, we’re still learning new board games, I guess.

Fiona:

Finding creative ways to pass the time.

Akshay:

Absolutely. I found myself sort of connecting with friends and family that I’ve lost touch with over the years which has been good.

And from a professional perspective, I’m fortunate enough to be part of a business that’s considered an essential service this time. And so, it’s been a busy time navigating disruption in our ways of working, but also ensuring that we do a part in ensuring that Australians are connected.

Fiona:

Absolutely, you guys are at the forefront of that. Definitely, I guess, as Acquisition Marketing Manager, I mean, obviously, you were on a trajectory for 2020 and then this crisis came along.

How has this impacted your strategy and what’s been happening in your role?

Akshay:

Yeah, for most businesses around the world, our goals over the last few weeks have changed and they’ve pivoted, but they’ve been really simple.

They’ve been twofold. First, we really wanna reassure our customers that we are here to help and support. And then the second one being, making sure that we keep Australians connected.

We’ve always known we play a really important role in the daily lives of Australians, but this crisis has really elevated that for us. What we’ve seen is everyone relying on our network to stay connected to friends and family, learning from home, working from home.

And so we’ve sort of adjusted our focus to ensure that we keep everyone connected.

Fiona:

Amazing. I guess there’s been no manual on how to work and live and do marketing through such a global crisis when so many industries are shut down and everybody is in high anxiety, and there’s this health crisis, and this threat of the health crisis.

Yeah, there’s no manual to show us the way through. We’re kind of just figuring things out, and doubling down like you said, on the simple things like reassuring customers and keeping everybody connected.

You focus on those two things as priority, and you…

Akshay:

Absolutely. I think we’re writing the playbook as we go, and that’s gonna sort of be the new normal as people have been saying.

And from an acquisition and comms perspective, for us, we’ve been really keen to understand new customer needs and how they’ve evolved, given current climate and for example, connectivity, being the key focus, learning from home…

Fiona:

Oh my goodness, yeah, everyone is now realising what kind of connection they have at home. A lot of people are relying on their mobile data…

Akshay:

Exactly.

Fiona:

And whether their plans can… you know, if the beloved NBN is not up to scratch for all these video calls.

Yeah, that’s a whole another conversation. That if we need to rely on our mobiles and we need to be connected, we need to get that data or make those calls that everything’s gonna work just so we can keep going.

Akshay:

Absolutely. Around connectivity, we have seen a shift in consumer behaviour around demand of products like tablets and iPads, and home internet really spike up. Given kids are learning from home and parents are working from home. So we have sort of adjusted a focus as well.

Fiona:

Of course, yeah, with all the kids are being at home and doing online learning, of course, they need to have access to really tablets and stuff…

Akshay:

Absolutely… And a key important thing around customers and audiences at this time is, for brands to continue building audiences.

I think a lot of brands might think that this is a time to pull back on investment and…

Fiona:

Well they are.

Akshay:

And to an extent it makes sense because you really wanna focus on your core business operations and make sure that you end up in a sustainable place after all things go back to normal.

But essentially, from a marketing perspective, I generally believe the focus should be on building audiences through content and brand messaging. A recent…

Fiona:

But… great time.  I mean, despite everything that’s going on, it is a great time to double-down on who your audience really is.

Akshay:

Exactly. Some of the recent reports have shown that people are spending way more time, around 66% more time on social media. So if you have the other right content, you have a really captive audience there.

Fiona:

Absolutely. You’ve been recognised a marketing leader, you understand marketing and leadership and what it takes. I mean, overall what do you think this crisis in this pandemic has revealed about the state of marketing leadership, this year?

Akshay:

Look again, it’s really interesting to observe how different leaders around the world have reacted to the situation. For me the crisis hasn’t just united people and countries but it has actually brought and brands together. A lot of different brands are collaborating.

A good example is Apple and Google working on a contact tracing technology together and being the top two competitors in the world, for them to collaborate on something that’s solving a customer pain-point and need is great to see.

Fiona:

It’s true. Normally, they’re going head-to-head at each other, but I think it’s now it’s like weapons down.

Let’s see how we can help each other and get through this and how can our brands benefit?

Akshay:

Exactly. And I think, again, the situation has really challenged marketing leadership to be clear on what the brand stands for, and to show customers that either, to your point, either providing a creative solution to a problem or simply doing a good gesture to help the community.

So I think if I have to summarise what I think key leadership qualities have stood out…

The need for decisiveness and decision-making, as well as nimbleness around reacting to a situation that’s changing on daily basis, I think, is key.

Fiona:

Yeah, those… being decisive, being confident, I think, in your decision-making, how do you get that as a marketing leader, because obviously, is it just something you’re born with, you’re just born decisive, or is it something that you learn in your career?

Akshay:

I’m a genuine believer that you build those skill sets over time. I think experience and all of us going to situations like these is gonna make us strong better, better decision makers.

Resilience for sure. I think in situations like these, and decisions that we make on a daily basis in our respective fields of work that, help us be better at approaching similar situations moving forward.

So, I generally think these are leader skills that people develop. Obviously there are certain gifted individuals that are born with a lot of resilience, calmness and the way they approach situations so that’s always an advantage for leadership.

Fiona:

No, absolutely, in terms of using those qualities in your role, what kind of time frame do you think marketing leaders are dealing with now, in terms of making these decisions and making these pivots?

Akshay:

I think, in speaking from personal experience, what is essentially is a framework for rapid decision-making, I think, given current climate, it’s more important to make a decision with speed over precision.

And that’s important and it’s also important to constantly evaluate how things are going on a daily basis. A good example…

Fiona:

Wow, you’re right. Things are changing daily…

Akshay:

You’re right. And a good example is we do daily check ins as a team, which is less about talking of work and what we’re doing at work, but more about we are feeling.

And I think that is so important to understand how people feel on a daily basis, and whether they have the right motivation to, you know, to come to work or to stay and spend time with family, and do what’s needed.

Fiona:

It sounds like EQ – emotional intelligence.

Akshay:

Absolutely, I’m very passionate about that subject.

Fiona:

Yeah, I’ve seen that, it kind of seems to be the number one thing that the most effective and respected and decisive leaders have, is they just have this ability to tap into this level of EQ, this level of…

Sometimes it’s not just pushing people for productivity, it’s displaying empathy and it’s looking at different ways of collaborating, and just being understanding on a whole different level, and not so consciously. But it is almost sub-conscious.

Akshay:

I couldn’t agree more.

I think empathy is a word that’s being used a lot these days, but it is for sure the most important quality, I would say, not just for leaders, but I think for everyone. It’s just so important for all of us to be a little more patient, and a little more understanding of the impact the crisis might have on individuals and on teams.

Fiona:

Yeah, we’ve seen some interesting responses from brands in Australia, in response to the crisis. Not just Optus and Telstra, but Woolies and Coles have kind of been on the front foot of getting the right messaging out there and managing things.

And then we’ve seen some brands struggle, I guess, like cruise ships, who haven’t been. Or certain travel businesses, or even Virgin and these travel businesses that haven’t been prepared really to deal with this…

Have you been happy with what you’ve seen in terms of brands displaying this kind of marketing leadership in Australia?

Akshay:

Yeah, look, almost every brand is doing their bit and helping the community. It is about what brands can offer the community at this stage.

And a few examples that have stood out for me over the last few weeks have been… there was a phase of a lot of panic buying in Australia and…

Fiona:

Oh my goodness… toilet paper!

Akshay:

Yes, toilet paper, and just a few toilet paper manufacturers coming out with a brand message. Sort of reassuring the community that there is no need for panic buying. There’s enough supply and really reinforcing the need to think of others was, I think, a really sort of a good message for the community and for them not to be opportunistic was great.

Another example of McDonalds… arranging your essential grocery items, again, helping.

Fiona:

Oh yeah, I saw that. I saw that what McDonalds is quite good from a brand perspective, and pivoting for whatever is happening situationally anyway, or whatever they’re reading the market. So I was surprised, but at the same time, wasn’t surprised…

Akshay:

Yeah, I love that and they’re just, sort of, always nimble enough to move and help out, and that helped reduce some of the load from the supermarket. So it’s, it’s great to see.

Fiona:

Yes. So just thinking about marketing management and marketing leadership. I know we were talking about that the leader has this EQ.

Is that the main difference that you see between just being a marketing manager and taking that step and being a marketing leader?

Akshay:

I always find this question really interesting. And the reason being, I don’t think you have to be one or the other. But there are a few key differences, between being a manager and a leader.

And I’m not that far into my leadership journey, and what I’ve learned is that great leadership is actually about focusing on the growth of others, and it’s less about managing tasks or projects. And I love this quote from Simon Sinek… He says

“Leadership is not about being in charge. Leadership is about taking care of those in your charge”.

So that sort of summarises leadership for me to…

Fiona:

I guess, leaders eat last. I’ve heard that as well.

Akshay:

Exactly. And then I’m a big fan of Simon Sinek in that respect. But I guess a clear difference between managers and leadership is the expectation from them, as well.

I think managers are expected to be great at managing teams or projects, and then keep them focused and deliver tasks on time where…

Where as a leader, has this ability to sort of nurture, protect, and guide, and mentor people over time and it’s more about, sort of, focusing on how individuals can achieve their dreams, and it’s less about the dreams and goals of the individual leader himself or herself.

Fiona:

Yeah, I do you think it’s hard juggling both?

Askhay:

Look, I think again, over time you develop those skills, and then I, myself, I’m going through a phase where I feel like I need to give back to the community.

I’m really keen on working with young marketers, and working through what the next generation of marketing leadership looks like. So I think over the years, you start off with wanting to contribute, wanting to be part of the action, wanting to be at centre stage and contributing, and then you move towards helping others, and making sure that you leave a good legacy behind.

Fiona:

No, that’s amazing. I wish more marketing leaders would behave like that. There just seems to be… It seems to be this dis-balance, especially to do with the education that young markets are getting.

I’ve been a Marketing Manager, I’ve hired graduates at a university, I had one graduate who said to me… “I can help you with a marketing plan, it should be about 40 pages, right? And we sit together over a few weeks, and we put it together”, and I’m like…Yeah, I’m not sure the education you received in university really matches how we have to be, how we have to juggle everything.

I said… “My marketing plan is a few pages and it’s normally put together and gets adjusted constantly. So yeah, I do think that there needs to be the those experienced marketers and those marketing leaders who have lived it, and seen how marketing should operate now.

I think it’s completely valuable to give that knowledge back to these younger marketers who may not be getting the best kind of education to prepare them for what they need to do.

Akshay:

Yeah, absolutely, I think that that’s where the role of mentors is really important, and I always encourage young marketers to have a mentor.

And it doesn’t have to be at work, it can be anybody outside. But somebody who can actually put real context and perspective in what’s going on out there.

And then I’ve been fortunate and lucky enough to have mentors for the past few years, and I continue to do so I actually help my marketing and leadership journey throughout.

Fiona:

No, that’s brilliant, I know, LinkedIn has like this feature where you can sign up to help… It says  “Do you wanna help those in your industry?” And I’ve signed up to that and I’ve met some great young marketers through that program and through my workplace as well.

I think it’s our obligation, if we’re wanting to help young marketers get in there and understand what it’s like to be an agile marketer in a marketer of the future.

Akshay:

Absolutely, I think it’s our responsibility as the current generation of marketers to ensure that we put Australia on the global map as well. I’m really passionate about Australia being in the top five countries that deliver great marketing, and create advertising and great leadership.

So anything we can do to sort of contribute towards that is also our responsibility.

Fiona:

That’s… yeah, you and I are definitely on the same page when it comes to this.

Yeah, because obviously there’s… I talk about technology, but technology is a massive area within itself. You’ve had this… all these different tools and I think I saw once a diagram or a venn diagram or something (actually just a graphic) that displayed all the different marketing tools that marketers could use…

And it had almost hundreds on it, in terms of how marketing managers can get their work done in terms of CRM, marketing automation, research tools, everything.

So I know there is… With all this technology out there, you can’t possibly know all of it or even some of it.

What do you think about this role in terms of the marketing technologist?

Akshay:

Interesting question Fiona. And I think with the evolution of digital marketing platforms and big data, and you rightly mentioned, the number of tools available today to a regular market are insane.

Back in the day, we used to rely on our agency to come back with the media plan, but these days we have 10 tools on our fingertips, that can take help us plan better.

But I think… and that sort of leads into your point around, as a Marketing Manager, you… I guess, ready to adapt all of them. Do you have the capacity to understand each tool to maximise its potential?

That’s where the role of a marketing technologist has become critical, over the last three to five years.

Ad tech is moving at a rapid pace and it’s important for marketing teams to stay up-to-date. For me personally, the role expands across a few different functions.

Marketing operations… playing a key role in understanding consumer behaviour, really helping with modelling and forecasting demand. Ensuring that we have the right platforms, to run and manage marketing campaigns and again to new solutions like chatbots for example. These are all really technical solutions.

Fiona:

What chatbots are becoming… an area unto themselves, if you’re looking from very, very basic chatbots right up to some of the chatbots that are integrated with AI now… crazy.

Akshay:

Absolutely. I think technologists can help non-technical marketers craft better campaigns, and better consumer experiences that effectively, sort of, leverage all the tools and software and data that’s available these days.

I was just saying, in the current situation, in the current climate, sort of elevates the need for such a role.

Fiona:

Yeah, it sure does because, especially with everybody working from home…

How are we all sharing technology and using technology as marketing teams? Have we thought out those processes properly? Are we working as efficiently as we can or does something need to change?

Akshay:

Absolutely, I think, again, we’re doing some work in this space on understanding changing consumer behaviour, how they’re interacting with the brand.

Fiona:

Yeah, actually, I would love to know what work you’re doing in this space.

Akshay:

Obviously, we have access to a number of tools and we have some awesome agency partners that are helping us.

Fiona:

You must see some great data.

Akshay:

Yes, that’s for sure.

And I think it’s just really, again understanding how media consumption is changing and how people are feeling towards different brands given current climate, and obviously there are a few trends in terms of how people and individuals react to crises.

You will see a reduced spending for example, people being more conscious on what’s an absolute necessity versus what’s a good to have, and for brands, we need to be careful. Sort of keep that sentiment in mind when we put focus on new products in a road map for the next 12 months.

So there’s a lot of interesting insights on consumer behaviour and media consumption there.

Fiona:

Yeah, I bet. Wow, it’s funny you say the next 12 months. I’ve been so used to thinking week-to-week, day-to-day I completely forgot about the next 12 months.

Akshay:

Yeah, I think one of the key things we are looking at is that, when things start to go back to normal, they’ll be a lot more appreciation for life and things that we consider trivial before COVID19.

I’m talking about going for a cheeky drink after work to a pub is gonna turn into a new emotional milestone. And I think brands like us and brands around the world need to make that into an important memory because people are craving for that.

Fiona:

Oh, this is such an opportunity for brands to start to position themselves. Ready for when we start to, you know, like you say, enjoy these little things that we never considered before.

And a brand could easily… well, maybe not easily, but start thinking now about what role in the…

Akshay:

Absolutely, and that’s the thinking required for us to sort of go into that recovery and revival phase, and one thing, and we talk about this a lot internally is one thing to learn from history, and the previous sort of disasters and crises is that, it results into a long-term change in consumer behaviour. It is not short term.

People, people… if you look at the last global crisis for example, it resulted into brands like a Airbnb and Uber where it was less about owning things and more about renting experiences.

And then that’s a behaviour that’s lasted.

Fiona:

True.

Akshay:

So again, I think there are gonna be new behaviours and new innovation and creative solutions to how we consume certain things. And a classic example is infrastructure around learning from home.

I think the crisis is forcing us to set up things at home, so then we are fully prepared to learn, and work from home.

Fiona:

I tell you, so many businesses were on the back foot… education, schools… so many companies just really did not understand how important being able to pivot to that kind of situation is, in terms of being able to access tools and software and have a process and a system from learning from home and working from home…

Akshay:

Absolutely and then I think that sort of leads into the point of how do we, and brands around the world, how do we encourage digital consumption of some of the physical experience that we got so used to… And I think that’s super exciting.

Fiona:

No, it sure is. I just wanna back track a little bit ’cause we’re talking about technology and I know you’re a huge fan of technology…

Artificial intelligence. It’s been this buzz word that’s been around for years and it’s been growing, kind of, in the background exponentially and it’s been happening and marketing has been driving that a lot.

How do you see artificial intelligence, AI, impacting today’s Marketing Manager?

Akshay:

I think AI was definitely the buzz word of 2019, for sure.

Look I think technology’s like AI and AR are fast sort of becoming part of our daily lives, and brands as well, as us as marketers need to embrace these, to ensure that we stay relevant and competitive. I believe AI presents really good opportunities to do what marketing managers have always wanted to do. You know, marketing managers have always dreamt of targeting the right customers, at the right time, with the right message.

When I imagine the AI platforms and tools do that, they definitely help with making marketing more effective, more personalised and hence more efficient. And then we’ve done some work at Optus trialing a digital marketing AI platform, and without taking names, the results have been great.

The opportunity of optimising campaigns in real time and finding new audiences as you go, is an exciting prospect.

Fiona:

Do you think AI adoption for marketers will be in the form of apps, and around data?

Akshay:

I think if you look at examples around the world, brands that are using AR really well, as part of their sort of core business is… Netflix comes to mind. They’ve used AI to understand what certain individuals are watching, their audiences suggest and recommend shows and movies based on that.

So I think use of using…

Fiona:

I was thinking actually I was thinking about their algorithm the other day because Netflix is seriously showing me too much of the same.

Do you know, I watch a couple of shows, and then… something about their algorithm suggests that I wanna keep watching those exact kind of shows over and over and…

Akshay:

That’s the beauty of AI right? It responds to data, it responds to data heavily…

Fiona:

It’s like, “Okay yes, I watch the scary show, but now I need something a little more cheery. Come on, suggest to me some cheery options…

Akshay:

And this is where I think that’s a good sort of segue into, a lot of people, are contemplating whether AI is gonna replace marketing managers and marketing leadership, and I am a genuine believer that AI, while it’s a great tool, it’s not gonna replace even human beings and human decision-making.

And then to your exact point, it is so reactive to data that it might miss external, human factors and feelings, which are really important in a marketing strategy.

Fiona:

Yes, no, I’ve always thought AI is just going to… I think people just wanted to grab headlines, when they start writing things like AI is going to take marketing jobs. And I was like, No, seriously… settle down.

I think if we take a step back, we’re just gonna see that AI is hopefully just gonna make marketers lives a little bit easier.

Akshay:

Absolutely and I think it comes back to the million dollar question of ROI. AI will help you prove ROI and it will become a standard tool that marketing managers use on a day-to-day basis.

Fiona:

I like that idea, that sounds fine to me. It doesn’t sound like something that’s gonna kill me or take over the world,.

Akshay:

You have nothing to worry about Fiona.

Fiona:

Oh good, awesome. Then I just wanted to say… so this crisis, it seems like we’re starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel and we’re starting to see that we’re gonna return to some kind of normal, some kind of socially-distanced normal, but to you…

hat do you think is happening now with marketing leadership? I know we talked about the EI and everything, but…

Is it heading in that direction? What is marketing management going to look like when we return to the new normal?

Akshay:

I’m personally really optimistic that things will start to revert back to normal, and so people will adapt to the new normal.

I was trying, on… So that by sharing an approach that was recently presented by one of our amazing agency partners where, they broke down the crisis into three key phases, and to which I have briefly referenced in our chat,

Essentially phase one, being about the rapid response, phase two being about recovery and phase three being about revival.

And there’s a lot of talk around the need for good leadership while we’re in this rapid response phase. I generally think it’s even more important in the recovery and revival phase, to be honest. As we…

Fiona:

What does that look like, if you’re wanting to be a good marketing leader? During that recovery and revival?

Akshay:

Yeah, I think a few key things that I would personally focus on, and looking at trends, globally.

There are three key things that would matter as we… as we recover not just as brands, but also as an economy. I think people, to start with. How do we continue our focus on building a team culture, that’s instilling trust, with everybody working from home.

There’s a lot of trust in the team at the moment. And I would like for that to continue, I would like to see brands and leadership teams embraced the flexible ways of working, not just because it’s necessary, but because it’s a choice.

And then…

Fiona:

Brilliant. Well, what’s the point in having all this technology? If we can’t use it to make our lives more flexible, and achieve more balance?

Akshay:

Exactly. Another one from a marketing and brand perspective, I think building optimism would be key for brands.

Ensuring that are brand purpose and values, align to the new customer needs, which we spoke about, ensuring that we continue to disrupt categories, and again, looking at history, situations like the usually result in innovation, they usually result in a new solution or a new way of consuming a product or a service. The silver lining.

As brands, it’s our duty to keep pushing and disrupt the category by offering, I guess, refreshed, as well as new experiences that customers will pay for.

And I think lastly, would be to continue to invest, I think, from a brand and marketing perspective, learning again from previous cases has been the brand setup invested and continued to build an audience and have a strong core at the back of everything they do, are the brands that come out stronger the other side.

And I think that’s so important for the economy to turn back to where it needs to be. So I think that will be a key in the revival phase for us.

Fiona:

Wow, I love your optimism, I really do.

It’s given me renewed hope for, that when we come out of this, we can be better, we can have a better reality in terms of our working life in terms, of our marketing, and basically, people, looking after each other and having that extra… you know, we’ve all been so busy.

This is one word that I decided after for 2020, I would refuse to use it because everybody was so busy, that we were so busy, busy, busy that we… And now this crisis, and this lock down has kind of forced us to think about, actually what’s the flip side of being busy, is we can make connections again, we can have better experiences, we can refine our lives, we can realise what’s really important.

Akshay:

Absolutely. And I think, as sad as it is to say this, I think, this is nature’s way of, sort of, calming all of us down globally, from our “busy” lives, and sort of reflect on what’s truly important.

And it’s the people around you, it’s your friends, and family, and it’s the fact that life and experiences are more important than anything else.

Fiona:

Absolutely. Well, this has been amazing. Thank you so much Akshay for joining me.

If someone wants to reach out to you or ask you any questions, I’ll get in touch. What’s the best way to find you?

Akshay:

Thanks for having me again, you and it’s been wonderful chatting to you. I’m really passionate about leadership. And then the current situation, sort of presents a really good opportunity for us to all step up and do a bit to help others around us.

I’m available on LinkedIn. My full name is Akshay Sardana, and please, if anybody had any questions feel free to reach out.

Fiona:

Great, great. I’ll link to your LinkedIn on the episode page anyway. Again thank you, a thousand times thank you. I hope you keep your optimism, through this and become a shining beacon out the other side because we’re gonna…

Akshay:

And thank you Fiona for doing your bit in helping others through this period as well, so keep up the good work and take care of yourself.

Fiona:

Thank you Akshay.

 

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